Techlearning blog

Beautifully presented

I think this pretty much misses out on the angsty side of community development:
1. dependence
2. rebellion
3. cohesion
4. autonomy

For me the end goal would be informed argument, as a model for development. That is how science works and that's a good community IMO. If there is too much emphasis on cohesion and niceness then that can have a smothering effect on the niggling voices of doubt.

I'm not convinced that karma doesn't work in communities that scale - eg. slashdot, reddit. Clay Shirky writes some really good stuff on this issue.
http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
(very long, very good)

About the size of communities (scale), Christopher Allen has published some interesting work on the dunbar number:

"... the optimal size for active group members for creative and technical groups -- as opposed to exclusively survival-oriented groups, such as villages -- hovers somewhere between 25-80, but is best around 45-50. Anything more than this and the group has to spend too much time "grooming" to keep group cohesion, rather then focusing on why the people want to spend the effort on that group in the first place -- say to deliver a software product, learn a technology, promote a meme, or have fun playing a game. Anything less than this and you risk losing critical mass because you don't have requisite variety."
http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/2005/10/dunbar_group_co.html

Bill,

Thanks for your take and resources. I am checking them out now. I am especially taken with the Dunbar Number & Group Cohesion.

Your point about too much emphasis on cohesion and niceness having a smothering effect on a critical eye is well taken.

Good work!

I couldn't agree more with the characteristics of healthy communties. It might be interesting to develop the opposite list - what makes a virtual community toxic?

I could start the "toxic community" list with characteristics of a couple of virtual communities I've encountered.

1. No sense of purpose or reason for being; no goal
2. No guidelines of do's and dont's for newbies with no experience with VCs
3. No community "shepherds" to see that no participant's posts are consistently ignored
4. All posts are written in dry, rather stuffy professional verbage. The culture of the community is to impress colleagues, not to collaborate.

I love the idea of Brownie Point Cards. I wonder . . . what are these cards like?

I admit it, I'm a joiner. I like to be in the fray. I enjoy the dynamics and the freedom associated with change and growth. So many groups make sense at first. Yes, I want to be teacher 2.0 or school 2.0 but where is the point of contact? Where is the friction? Where is the responsibility? What is the real purpose? Networking alone is far too nebulous a cause. By far the most exciting and successful social network I am part of is worldbridges.net. Why? They have a winning formula which is no formula at all. They are just people who want to know you and help you become a better member of society by empowering you with tools and free support. Now that to me defines a real community. I have been out of the loop lately with classes but I know that any time I step back into the fertile soil of worldbridges I will grow a little more as an educator. I also know that my input has value. They don't have a real hierarchy. It's clear who has the most experience but the respect is divided equally among all participants. So if you build it...is not enough. I think you have to build something that everyone can own, share and take responsibility for. Think of it as a community garden.

What fascinates me, Sheryl, is the ability to transfer concepts such as "community," "role," "organizer," or "development" from mainline sociology for use in a virtual context of human communicative behaviors. Personally, I'm as much drawn to Web2.0 networking as a cognitive way to (re)build actual neighborhoods of persons and families who reside in geographical and cultural proximity to one another. It's clear to me that transmission of (local) culture and learning, while the most ancient of human ways of socializing, are yet susceptible to a digital re-infusioning of life-blood.

First of all, let me say that the only time I've BLOGGED is with my elementary students. I have read other people's blogs, so I guess I'm a "consumer"! As I read this I wanted to say "AMEN" after each paragraph. The concepts are universal in my opinion as I can easily relate them to my own students' participation in virtual communities.
Sheryl, as I read I found so much information, but there are 3 things that are most important to someone like me.
1. The virtual community must be exciting and relevant to the user.
2. The community causes the user to think differently or more deeply about a topic or concept.
3. The user can find a practical application for what is learned.
I see myself using what I've learned to explain necessary components for a successful virtual community as my students begin to work within their own virtual communities at school. Hopefully, as they learn to communicate with kindness and respect they will transfer these communicative skills into their real world experiences.

What about culture?

There are elements of Peter Senge's Learning Organizations and DuFour's and Eaker's PLCs that should probably be incorporated or at least referenced.

I am working the data for my HS. I find that teachers are very sensitive about data from their classroom (failure rate, SOL pass rate, etc.) Getting past that in this venue will be challenging, but in a trusting environment it can work.

One final point, there are elements of leadership that need to be referenced in this. From my current observation, the biggest problem with PLCs is leaders don't really understand their role or their importance in learning organizations.

Nice overview of VLCs and great comments, too. I have found that in working with teachers and students, success depends on the community's ability to remain pertinent for the participants. There needs to be a feeling of personalization as well as of sharing. Finally, a VLC must be convenient and become a natural part of the learners' lives. How to make this all happen?

Anne,

Developing the list of toxic communities is an interesting idea indeed. I wonder if what is toxic to one would be toxic to all? Thanks for stopping by and sharing. I look forward to learning more from you about PLCs in NC.

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Kathy,

I am really interested in a comment you made, "Networking alone is far too nebulous a cause." I would love it if you could help me flesh that out a little. What do you mean exactly? I also like the idea of "community garden"- is worldbridges built on a garden framework?

Thanks for weighing in.

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Skip,

I so agree!Web 2.0 has incredible potential for preserving culture and reuniting neighborhoods- or families for that matter.

I had this idea of using podcasts to capture the thoughts of those who were terminally ill as a way of preserving their life lessons in a time when they were passionate about doing so. I believe this would be a valuable and precious resource for the generations to follow.

Thanks for adding your ideas to this conversation.
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Annette,

I am so pleased you stopped by- I would love to know more about how you use VLCs with your elementary students.

Will this be the first year you have done so? If not, what lessons learned do you have to share?
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Anthony,

You are right! The leadership piece is huge. I will make that the topic of my next post in 2 weeks.

You said, "What about culture?
There are elements of Peter Senge's Learning Organizations and DuFour's and Eaker's PLCs that should probably be incorporated or at least referenced."

Which elements do you see fitting in here and why? I look forward to hearing back from you.
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Sharon,

You ask some great questions. I particularly struggle with how to make the community convenient and a natural part of learners lives. I have watched as my Twitter community has started to consume more and more of my time. At some point I will have to back away simply in an effort to regain balance. Trying to figure out the point where value added dissipates and compulsion takes over is a n intriguing one for me.

Thanks for pushing my thinking on this.

Sheryl

This information was very useful to me. I am very comfortable being a lurker and reading many of the suggested articles and blogs and then starting new conversations at my school. I still haven't figured out the "mechanics" of processing all of the information that comes in during the day and responding quickly enough before the group is on to another topic. I wonder if anyone has a suggestion on how to move from lurker to learner.
Patty

Patty you said.."I wonder if anyone has a suggestion on how to move from lurker to learner?"

I love that question. There has been quite a bit of discussion around lurkers and the value they add or gain from communities.

For example, "In face-to-face or team settings, “lurking” or sidebar conversations are discouraged but successful online communities build benches for them. There is an ebb and flow with core members drifting to the sidelines as topics change. Peripheral members drift into the center as their interests are stirred. Successful communities create “fires” in the center to invite involvement." – McDermott, R. Building Spontaneity Into Strategic Communities

Ken Pruitt says it is as simple as, "... you go from lurker to learner as soon as you comment."

"Lurking is a form of cognitive apprenticeship which can be seen as legitimate peripheral participation in discussion-oriented CoPs. The culture of the Internet allows you to link, lurk, and learn. You can move from the periphery to the center safely asking a question—sometimes more safely virtually than physically, and then back out again. It has provided a platform for perhaps the most successful form of learning that civilization has ever seen." –John Seely Brown as reported by Wendy Atkin

I love observing a lot of things and then reflecting something back that I hope will provoke more questioning/probing on the part of others. This mutual sharing can, I hope, lead to new thoughts and innovation.

If we use Kathy's community garden metaphor, Lurkers are like "bumblebees" who buzz around, observe, and cross-pollinate discussions where they seem to be needed.

Hope this helps.

Elegant!

Facilitating an online community is a challenge. Sustaining a community is even more difficult. Especially for educators. Yes, there are lurkers, but are they reading your comments? You can check if they link to you or refer to you. Is that really a community? Maybe. Educators are used to people responding, listening. Many of us were taught to listen and follow rules. Well, the rules have changed in the online game. I like the metaphor of the bees and cross-polination.

Maybe we have to allow for procrastination and a little buzzing around, people to post on their own time, use RSS feeds or email notification when someone posts, facilitators to knock occasionally on members of the communities virtual door to nudge them.

How do you know a lurker is not learning? We just need to find the key to opening their door and encouraging them to share their ideas and points of view. That first step is tough for some and good facilitators (and maybe other members of the community) can hold their hand as they take that step. It takes a lot to keep a real community going. Can add more later...

Barbara,

I agree-- how do we know lurkers aren't learning!

It has been my experience that lurkers are synthesizers. They often want to take in information and hear from others before they draw their own conclusions and share their perspective. Very much like those reflective learners in class, that take their time to ask a question and enter the classroom discussion.

Sheryl,
Thanks for your point of view on this. It really is helpful in understanding the purpose of VLC and CoPs. I must admit I do my share of lurking although I am contributing on two blogs now and by virtue of posting a comment on this space, I am moving into a commentor role.

This thread has challenged my thinking as it has yours. I always enjoy learning from and with you so please keep up the good work!

Sheryl, This was so great for me to read. I'm only beginning to recognize how important it is to shift our sociological understandings to include virtual communities, especially when our students are growing up with them. I also thought Skip's comment about using virtual communities to help preserve and develop real neighborhood and family communities was interesting. Perhaps a school community, including educators, students, parents, and community organizations would be a place to start.
Thanks again for pointing me in this direction.

Jon,
I agree you have shifted your role now. :) So I hope to see lots more of your commentor role!
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Ariel,
You said, "Perhaps a school community, including educators, students, parents, and community organizations would be a place to start."

It sure would be! Let me know if you need any help in setting this up. How exciting.
Hey- you are in NY right? I may have an idea. Email me please.

Sheryl
as usual you've managed to summarise some key ideas on the topic and stimulate some excellent responses - living proof of the effectiveness of an online community! I'm interested to note the references to "toxic" communities, and the idea of anarchy etc - there's no doubt that these concepts underpin many of the most productive experiences of community. But we must also recognise that for some, such experiences are also off-putting - particularly if they are at the emerging interest stage, simply dipping their toe in the water so to speak. So - a healthy community will have its provocateurs, its moderators and its welfare officers - working together to ensure that the provocation and debate is balanced with a sense of belonging and acceptance. I use the concepts of the Concerns Based Adoption Model (CBAM - see http://www.nas.edu/rise/backg4a.htm) as a framework for a lot of what I do in the professional learning space. Using this model, the "toxic" environment will definitely appeal to those at the upper levels of the scale - but may have a different impact on those at the other end.

Derek,

You said, "So - a healthy community will have its provocateurs, its moderators and its welfare officers - working together to ensure that the provocation and debate is balanced with a sense of belonging and acceptance."

The interesting thing to me is that often these roles develop organically and are not assigned, that to me is true community.

You also said, "Using this model, the "toxic" environment will definitely appeal to those at the upper levels of the scale - but may have a different impact on those at the other end."

Man, that is the truth. It seems the more well versed or educated we become the snarlier we like it.

Derek thank you so much for stopping by-- your 4 C model shared in the graphic above is well thought out. Tell me who or what inspired its creation? Was it all from your experiences? I am looking forward to your PLN keynote in Oct. on K12Online 07.

Wow - quick response Sheryl - do you ever sleep? :-)

re your question about the inspiration for my 4 Cs model, it has really developed from my own experience, inspired, in part, from my fundamental understandings of the CBAM model.

I'm a real fan of using frameworks like that to help understand patterns of use or behaviour - whether they "fit" or not, they provide a common point of focus for discussions and the development of shared vocabularies and understandings.

I would just like to add to what Sharon said, eliciting participation is the key. How to keep a VC or PLC relevant is a tough question. One would hope that the community sustains itself after enough members come aboard, but we have all witnessed large communities flag after just a few months.

If it thrives then so be it, but for me the question becomes what do you do to save a community that begins to flag. Do you let it spiral? Do you "layoff" members and re-organize? Should the creator be responsible for providing activities and keeping connections fresh?

Maybe there has to be a leader when the members of your network still crave the structure of 20th century learning?

Sorry for the stream of conscious.
Ken

Ken,
You said, "If it thrives then so be it, but for me the question becomes what do you do to save a community that begins to flag. Do you let it spiral? Do you "layoff" members and re-organize? Should the creator be responsible for providing activities and keeping connections fresh?

Maybe there has to be a leader when the members of your network still crave the structure of 20th century learning? "

I would first direct you to the first post in this 3 part series on VLCs.
http://www.techlearning.com/blog/2007/07/virtual_communities_as_a_canva_1.php
That piece answers some of your questions. As you sensed the community organizer is a very important role and a community needs to have just the right person to see it through. The community organizer needs to know when to engage, troubleshoot, send messages behind the scenes and when to let other members carry out those roles.

Read that piece and let me know what you think.

Sheryl,
This is really fun! I am scouring the web to find a definition of a community garden framework in education and it eludes me so I will clarify my thoughts. I envision the traditional community garden in the UK or perhaps a grass roots community garden in the US as good examples. Both of these models are modified versions of intentional communities. I believe that successful online communities need to consider these shared characteristics of intentional communities: common vision, shared resources, egalitarian values, interpersonal growth, democratic and or consensus decision-making, community ownership, an interchange of knowledge, reflection, transformation, multi-functional purposes and a product or products that benefit people outside of the locus of the community. Membership is open. For those idealists who missed the 60's, this kind of virtual community is the next best thing to a commune! In the year I have been involved with worldbridges I have seen nothing but consistency in their goals and philosophy. No hidden agendas, no oneupmanship. I think the community garden is the perfect place to blossom because it has the most fertile soil. And you're right, everyone plays an important role in the ecosystem, even the bumblebees!

The concept of passion in learning is refreshing. When I taught fourth grade many moons ago, students were already turned off to reading by the time they arrived in fourth grade. When I chose to "deep six" the basal, survey the students on their interests and build my reading class around things they were interested in(passionate about)the level of engagement went through the roof, comprehension improved, and the students love of school was rekindled.

I remember one young lady in my class who had an interest in nature. I quenched that interest through outdoor education, birdwalks with a community of birdwatchers, and nature hikes with other hikers. Just last year I received a call from her mother who took the time to find out where I moved to, called me at work to see if I was indeed the same teacher from years gone by and then proceeded to tell me how her daughter had achieved her doctorate and was a professor at Harvard.

If we can get passion in the learning, by individualizing at least for some topics and connecting our students with like minded communities of learners, they will learn at high levels and great things will happen.

I wish I had all of the tools available to teachers today to network students with common interests from all over the world.

There needs to be a lot of staff development, I think, to get our teachers to a place they should be and it behooves administrators and boards of education to set new learning goals and inspire teachers to learn all that they can so that they can help their students get connected to others with the same passions they have.

I realize there are some safety concerns out there that need to be addressed, but I don't believe they should keep us from teaching our children how to use the collaborative tools that will help them become the life-long learners most mission statements state that they want their children to become.

Thanks, Sheryl, for being a leader on HSNF.

Great discussion. I think sometimes we become a little obsessed with the lurkers. I like the comment in the learning circuits blog about the need for those leading or the commentators to "build the fire" that encourages participation. It seems more important to build the leaders and the learners/contributors (not necessarily easy)as I see that the lurkers will make the first step when ready - but only through the skills and efforts of others. I haven't investigated but I wonder if we can expect any different communication patterns or participation than we get with other forms of discussion /information exchange?

I love that this discussion focuses on the sociology of on-line community rather than the tools of it, reminding me that tools are simply tools. However, when you say, "And as we attempt the adventurous and exciting Craig Bellamy has shared an Online Community map that is sure to light the path," I am reminded that tools are form and form often = content. Before I could delight in the mapping of the growth of virtual community geography, I had to revive from the immediate recoil that the map is "European" in silhouette. Remember semiotics/Signs of the environment? Even on the Web, especially (?) shouldn't we notice the signs that preserve or break down old hierarchies/boundaries?

My students are in grades 2-4 and we use Think.com which is a free service sponsored by Oracle Foundation to connect to the world. The students have their own webspace and email accounts and the space is password protected. I use it to post assignments for enrichment classes (middle and high reading students). They communicate with each other and with me by leaving "stickies" and using email.
Other than completing assignments that involve Internet-based research and personal interviews, the students are able to communicate within our own school community as well as other schools throughout the world.
We also use blogs to communicate. We have five teachers, including myself, who have blogs for their students. Participation on my blog is optional and focuses on ways students feel they can apply what they learn in school each day to real world experiences. Most are very thoughtful comments. I like that they seem to express themselves more freely in the blog environment and I believe that it helps me to know my students better. I feel it creates a "kinship" between the teacher and the student.

Kathy,
I hope you will continue develop your 'garden' idea and maybe even bring back a conceptual framework graphic for us to brainstorm around with you.
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Garry said, "If we can get passion in the learning, by individualizing at least for some topics and connecting our students with like minded communities of learners, they will learn at high levels and great things will happen."

I agree and in some cases it is even very appropriate to connect our students with diverse ideas, that are not necessarily "like minded" to help push their/our thinking and allow for innovation.

I am so encouraged to see how as a superintendent you have taken experiences from the classroom and use them in meaningful ways to lead your district into the 21st Century.
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Jackie said, "I haven't investigated but I wonder if we can expect any different communication patterns or participation than we get with other forms of discussion /information exchange?"

I love this kind of questioning and I believe that research around these kinds of ideas will prove to be of value in redesigning school for the 21st Century.
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Susan,
Some advocate for total deconstruction of the system we have now in order to create schools that are more relevant. I still question where I am on that.

I see so many individuals implementing powerful 21st Century change that I tend to believe that by using CoP we can bridge from where we are to where we need to go.

For example, Annette Harris (commenter above) is a perfect example of a teacher who has transformed her teaching to include the needs and passions of her learners.

Thank you so much for the deep discussion. This conversation is amazing.

A fantastic article Sheryl. I have printed it out as it is full a great ideas that I will pass on to others.
I think that to sustain a vibrant Learning Community, the users of that community needs to have a passion for the subject (as in my Bali Forum!!!) and that the Community meets the needs of the user - a hard thing to do when the user is unknown or even just lurking.
I believe it is quite okay to be a lurker, and I lurk a fair bit myself. But if passionate one will soon jump in.
Some blog and forum writers get despondent if they get no replies or comments, but for every comment there are dozens who have read, appreciated and learnt.
The big question is how to sustain the community, and should you even try? If it doesn't sustain itself, has it meet it's purpose and need to move on?

Thank you for writing this- lots of collaboration *gold*.
Whether lurking or learning, I love to instigate and shepherd people into these virtual communities of learning.
Half the battle is won when people realise these technologies can help make their lives better, not harder. Getting people to lurk in the first place, and helping them find their passion in a VLC is a wonderful thing.

Sheryl,

I enjoyed reading your article, it is something that my business partner and I have had long discussions about. I wanted share with you how we approach participation for our community at SCHOOPY (http://www.schoopy.com). SCHOOPY is a niche social networking site for schools, and as such, we have worked hard to create an environment that will be helpful and enjoyable for not only teachers, but students and parents as well. We realized early that while teachers may want a place to post information about their school and classrooms, it would be wasteful if the students and parents weren't engaged enough to visit the community. The aim for SCHOOPY was to create a fun environment for participation, that would ultimately connect a school's community online.

Thanks again for the article, I'm happy to see that educators are eager to create communities online.

Hi Sheryl,

I really love this article and the follow-up discussion. The Internet is doing so much for us all in terms of learning and finding like-minded people!

As for the suggestion if Skip concerning building local communities, I must say that it interest me a lot also and I have some big (local) plans for that, but something is holding me back: fear of backlash of unhappy community members who live nearby. I have written about this on:

http://www.shapingthoughts.com/2007/08/02/managing-a-local-online-community-without-being-harrassed-or-worse

and already got some nice comment, but I would appreciate the input of all of the wonderful people out here!

Many thanks in advance.

Greetings from the Netherlands.

Warm regards,
Marcel

It is a very nice forum, so great, it is a modern trend to form a virtual community.And passion can be created within the community of same interest.It is really a journey of caring and sharing.
Simon from China

Sheryl,
Eloquent as usual and certainly gave me a jolt. I lurk, I do learn but keeping up with it all is not easy. The VLC is something you know we are attempting in our district. It is slow and coming but it is coming. On-line and virtual learning is where I'd say 80% of my learning is taking place. The other 20% is only due to the fact that paper is still the sole source for many resources. Thank you for again, stretching my learning, giving me a little more guilt (are you sure you're not Jewish? LOL). You are an inspiration and continue to amaze me.

Sheryl,

As chance would have it, someone shared this post on Twitter today(months later) and it was just what I needed as our school is considering embarking on some learning cohorts.

Thanks for sharing your experience and for generating a tremendously reflective conversation here!

Sheryl,

Glad KJarrett put this on everyone's radar again this morning. After listening to parts of our PLP Elluminate session yesterday (and anxiously wishing I could have sat through all the sessions yesterday afternoon), this is icing on the cake. You are doing a fabulous job building a learning community with your PLP model. And you have clearly modeled the best practices of an organizer--you don't "own it". Kudos, and thank you.

Sheryl,

Glad KJarrett put this on everyone's radar again this morning. After listening to parts of our PLP Elluminate session yesterday (and anxiously wishing I could have sat through all the sessions yesterday afternoon), this is icing on the cake. You are doing a fabulous job building a learning community with your PLP model. And you have clearly modeled the best practices of an organizer--you don't "own it". Kudos, and thank you.

universally i think that your on the right track and agree with most of the points made.

I have been creating a new virtual community my self.