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June 15, 2000

Taking Stock:
  What Does the Research Say About Technology's Impact on Education? (cont.)


Interview with Larry Cuban

conducted by Judy Salpeter, Editor, Technology & Learning

Q:YOU'RE OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A CRITIC OF "TECHNO-ENTHUSIASTS" WHO OVER-RATE THE VALUE OF EDUCATIONAL TECHNOLOGY. CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THIS ISSUE?

A:When I refer to "techno-enthusiasts"or "technophiles"I'm talking about folks who believe that schools can be saved by information technology. These enthusiasts usually say kids learn faster, better and more with the machines and that the technology is an instrument for reform. They do not question at all the pervasive story used to justify educational technology-that, unless we have technology in our schools, kids won't be able to get jobs in an increasingly computerized world.

I believe this is a misguided way to think about schooling. We worry about teaching keyboarding today but it won't be needed when voice activation becomes common in a few years. The dogma will only be replaced when people realize how quickly it is all changing. Kids don't need years of computer exposure to succeed. People with no computer background generally catch on in a few weeks-a few months tops.

Q:SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT TECHNOLOGY HELPS STUDENTS LEARN FASTER, BETTER AND MORE?

A:Well, there is a long research history that shows that tutorial and drill software-the sort of CAI uses that began in the '60s and '70's-can improve test scores. But the issues are more complicated. Much computer use in schools these days involves computer "enhanced"instruction-things like simulations or other programs that require teachers to be involved. And there's no evidence that this helps to the degree promoters promise..

Q:WHY NOT? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY REALLY DON'T HELP OR IS IT JUST THAT WE HAVEN'T MEASURED THEIR IMPACT?

A:Mostly the latter. We haven't made appropriate distinctions as we pose the research questions. There's been a lot of research about CAI and a lot of anecdotal evidence but no body of serious research to measure whether technology will achieve its own goals-whether it can help in areas such as intellectual development. I'm open minded. We might find that it works. In fact my hunch is that it probably does, but we don't know for sure. I remain a skeptic because so many claims have been made without questioning.

Q:EVERYONE SEEMS TO AGREE THAT THIS SORT OF RESEARCH IS MUCH HARDER THAN MEASURING IMPROVEMENTS IN TEST SCORES. IS IT AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK OR ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC IT CAN BE DONE?

A:Yes, I am optimistic. The studies need to be well designed and their authors need to be willing to publish results even when they don't come out the way they would like.

There are a few research studies that are examples of what's possible. I wrote a preface to the book written by David Dwyer and others about ACOT's research because I was very impressed that the authors went beyond the narrow questions and looked at evidence about the ways in which technology affects teaching, how it aids in a constructivist approach.

I think the studies at Vanderbilt and other university-based research where they develop and try out their own software also look promising. They seem to be getting some positive results although they're not far enough along for us to base policy on them.

Q:WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN IN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS WITH TECHNOLOGY IN SCHOOLS? WILL THERE BE DRAMATIC CHANGES?

A:As long as the money continues to be there, and the economy is strong, access will continue to be much greater for all levels of students. It's easiest to find money to buy hardware so this will continue. Still, most kids will be using computers no more than one or two hours a week-less that ten percent of their instructional time. There will always be schools at one extreme or another, but this will be most common. And reformers will continue to complain about limited access and unimaginative uses of the technology.

Q:WHY DO YOU THINK THE CHANGE IS SO SLOW? I BELIEVE I'VE HEARD YOU QUOTED AS SAYING THAT TECHNOLOGY WILL NEVER MAKE HEADWAY IN SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF RESISTANCE ON THE PART OF TEACHERS.

A:No, I wouldn't use the word "resistance."That's an administrator's term. Teachers don't resist. They're not saboteurs. They simply realize that the costs of adopting technology are very high and many of them don't like it. "Adaptation"is a better word. Most technology initiatives are top-down. Many teachers want to use the technology but others don't because the people who make the decisions for them don't understand their needs.

Schooling has many purposes. Lots of people see it just as getting prepared for the workplace. There are so many other pressures and organizational issues teachers face. People who push technology on teachers minimize the impact of workplace conditions and the culture of the classroom.

Q:CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THIS?

A:Suppose you're a high school teacher. You have five classes and a few prep periods. You teach about 100 kids a semester. You have papers to grade, homework to assign, tests to prepare. You're told you have to use computers but you also have to follow the curriculum and what if the two don't match? What if the computer breaks down or there's only one to be shared by all the students in the room? If there's a lab, you need to schedule time to use it. And the technology is neither reliable or flexible enough for you to count on it. Elementary school teachers have a similar problem. They have fewer students but even more subjects to cover and very little time to prepare.

We find similar skepticism at a university level. Take for example Stanford University where Stanford professors have been using computers for decades. Studies in the '80s and early '90s showed that the vast majority of these professors had computers at home and used them for their own work. But by 1994 only 27 percent of the faculty surveyed said they ever used a computer in the classroom for instruction and only 8 percent said they used it often. Why? Most said that it was due to lack of time to locate relevant instructional software. Approximately half said they had no time to learn about classroom uses of computers although help was available at five university centers. Basically, they did not see the need. What we are really seeing in schools and universities is a conflict of values between techno-enthusiasts and teachers who are comfortable with the human role they have become used to playing without the machine to interfere.

Q:WHAT'S THE SOLUTION? SHOULD WE BACK OFF AND FORGET ABOUT TECHNOLOGY IN SCHOOLS?

A:Not necessarily but we need to ask the right questions. What are the goals of schooling? Do we care most about literacy? Social development? Other goals? The school community needs to reach a consensus, then ask, "Now, how might the technology help us reach these goals?"Finally, once you know where you want to go and how technology might help, you need to look at the structure of the school and how time is used and see what might need to change in order to meet the goals. The questions really break down into:

1. What are we after?

2. How can technology help?

3. What do we have to change to make use of it?

Teachers themselves vary in their beliefs. They don't necessarily agree with one another about whole language vs. phonics, arithmetic vs. "new math." We need to leave them some choice. Technology can help drive change. Sometimes it's a catalyst. But it is not driving most school reform efforts. And I can imagine a fine school that uses no computer technology at all. We need to be honest and open to debate about value conflicts-not determined that wiring schools and sending teachers to workshops is the only right answer.

Larry Cuban He has been a professor at Stanford University since 1981. He taught high school social studies for 14 years and was an administrator for 11, seven of which were as a district superintendent. He has written extensively about school reform and the history of instruction and curriculum. His most recent work (written with David Tyack) is Tinkering Toward Utopia. He has written numerous articles on the topic of computers in education, including the often-quoted "Computer Meets Classroom; Classroom Wins," in Teachers College Record, Winter 1993. He may be reached at cuban@leland.stanford.edu.
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